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hello and welcome to tales from the

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rabbit hole I'm your host Nick West

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today I'm all alone because normally I

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interview somebody who was down the

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rabbit hole is down the rabbit hole or

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as know somebody down the rabbit hole or

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rabbit hole of conspiracy theories but

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last weekend I went down a rabbit hole

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of my own I visited a flat earth

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conference in fact I was a featured

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speaker in fact I was actually the

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headliner in a way of this flat earth

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conference the flat earth conference was

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called the exit the matrix Expo and it

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was in Las Vegas at the Plaza Hotel on

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May the between 26th and 27th the

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Saturday and the Sunday the way it came

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about was kind of interesting before I

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go into that in the reason I'm not

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having someone on to interview this week

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is that I talk to a lot of people at

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this conference and I didn't record them

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because I didn't want to intimidate

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people because people who believe in the

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flat earth in other conspiracy theorists

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at a fairly extreme are often very

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suspicious of people who don't believe

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in those theories so I talked to them

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and I tried to remember as best as I

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could what happened and this is going to

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be me be my impressions of what happened

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at that conference and my explanation of

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what I did how it came to pass and what

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I learned from it

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I also hope to follow up with a number

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of the people that I met get them on the

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podcast and interview them so it's good

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to have this baseline of what my

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perception is before I interview these

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other people and hopefully they'll be in

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the next week or two at least one okay

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so the Flat Earth Expo called exit the

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matrix and it was organized by

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ostensibly Mad Mike Hughes I had this

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t-shirt here Mad Mike Hughes Mad Mike

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Hughes is a Las Vegas personality I

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guess who is famous for launching a

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rocket to try to see if the earth is

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curved now his first rocket was

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essentially just a publicity stunt he

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only went up I think like a thousand

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feet or less like maybe 600 feet

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and it was a steam-powered rocket so it

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wasn't going to go into space but he's

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been a kind of a member of the Flat

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Earth community for a while

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kind of on the fringe because people

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aren't really sure if he believes the

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earth is flat I personally don't really

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think he really thinks it's flat but

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he's obviously open to the idea because

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of this kind of equivocation he is a bit

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on the outside of the Flat Earth

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community and I think he was a bit

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annoyed it's getting less attention from

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other Flat Earth people when he

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announced his second rocket launch which

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is supposed to take him to the edge of

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space and so he decided to organize his

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own conference and he's teamed up with a

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guy who was helped in before who goes by

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a number of names one of which is

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infinite plane Society it's probably the

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most well known for his YouTube channel

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where he broadcasts these long

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conversations that he has with people

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about who I guess you would call them

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false flags or fake fake events see he

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thinks everything is fake basically or

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he assumes everything is fake until

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proven otherwise so if something happens

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like someone gets shot he will assume

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that that that shooting has been faked

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so infinite plane Society and Mad Mike

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are setting up this conference now it

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really seems to be mostly organized by

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infinite plane Society who goes by a

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number of names one of which is Tim

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Osman which is the guy I interviewed

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like a week or so ago and Tim Osman is

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the name supposedly of the CIA agent who

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was pretending to be Osama bin Laden

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it's part of the grander conspiracy

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theory so using the name Tim Osman is

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kind of a signalling device to show that

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you're being ironic about about reality

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I guess and that you think that's

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everything is fake bla bla bla

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ok so Tim Osman IPs and Mad Mike Hughes

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are sitting at this conference and what

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happened was IPS contacting me via email

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and asked if I would like to be on his

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show is essentially his podcast is

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YouTube channel to talk about chemtrails

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because he doesn't think that chemtrails

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are real which is

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you know kind of like if you think

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people believe that the earth is flat

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then why not believe in other theories

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like chemtrails but one of the things I

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learned over the weekend was the quite a

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few people don't actually think that

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chemtrails are real and yet they still

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think the earth is flat which is rather

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strange so I agreed to go on IP s is

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show and I talked about chemtrails for a

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while and then after that he asked if I

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would like to give a speech at the Flat

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Earth conference and I said sure yeah if

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you pay for my affair and my hotel and

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he agreed to that and then he said would

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I like to debate and I said yeah yeah

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that'd be fine I didn't know who I was

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debating at the time but you know I'm

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always up for a discussion a debate and

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he told me later would be this guy

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Nathan Thompson who is a guy who runs a

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very popular Flat Earth group on

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Facebook Nathan Thompson is kind of a

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biblical flat earther in a way he uses

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some biblical explanations but he also

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likes to throw out lots and lots of

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scientific sounding explanations which

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generally aren't very good but he's got

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long a long list of them so it's

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actually you can to get gets hard to

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address because there's so many of them

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but I did address how social I should

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actually discuss that later

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so I agreed to this I was a very

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suspicious of course there was a bunch

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of people who believe in the Flat Earth

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or inviting me to Las Vegas for some

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conference that no one's ever heard of

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there was no publicity or anything at

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the time and my my suspicions were

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removed somewhat when he actually sent

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me some money to cover my airfare I told

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him how much the airfare would be he

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sent me money I booked the flight he

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sent me some more money to cover the

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cost of the hotel and he he booked the

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hotel for me so that was all fine you

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know I'm not going to be out-of-pocket

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it would be an interesting interesting

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three days two or three days in in Vegas

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so yeah that's how it all came about as

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the day he got closer as the time got

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closer there wasn't very much publicity

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about this this flutter conference and

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it's kind of surprised at this because

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you know this already spent a thousand

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but on me for my hotel room and my

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flight and yet they didn't really seem

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to be proper saddening at all in which

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she was estranged and Tina I was vaguely

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suspicious about what was going on but

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obviously if this de spent the money to

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get me over there it's it's you know

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seemed legit and eventually there was

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some publicity but it was all or was in

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just fairly obscure corners and flat

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earth groups and in IPS as Tim Osmonds

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site and so it was a bit a bit odd that

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there really wasn't more publicity so I

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wasn't really expecting very many people

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to be there and as it happens that you

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know that played out but it's jumping

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ahead so I flew out there on the Friday

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and I took my infrared camera with me my

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Nikon P 900 was just being converted to

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infrared and I used that to take a bunch

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of photographs out from the window try

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to really take the curve of the earth

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but it was too clearly unfortunately for

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me to get any good photos but that's the

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type of thing I like to do when I'm on a

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plane when I arrived I checked into the

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hotel and there's a bit of confusion

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because it was a different name on the

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reservation and obviously I didn't

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actually know what the real name or of

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IBS is what does Tim Ottomans real name

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like you know he goes by a whole bunch

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of different names I didn't know what

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was real I didn't know what to do and so

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there was some it took me about 15

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minutes to actually check in whilst they

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tried to track down who this guy

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actually was whose name was on the

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reservation and whose great card it was

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and actually we got in touch with him I

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think he was driving at the time and

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then it was all confirmed it was all

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sorted out sir

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network wasn't a problem it was just a

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confusion over names and him using an

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alias with me I guess and probably his

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real name with the hotel because he had

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to use its credit card so I checked in

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and then I went to get something to eat

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and I met Mad Mike Hughes man Mike is

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the rocket rocket guy who was trying to

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get to the edge of space in a rocket he

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is 63 years old he said this a few times

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and it's a smaller guy which is pretty

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handy for fitting into

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small rockets and it seems very nice

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very pleasant very polite he talked

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about how he appreciated me being there

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and how he thought it would be good to

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have polite discourse and he said he

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thought this will be the last flat of

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debate that was ever needed which I

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thought was something of an overreach

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because obviously there's been lots of

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Leiter's debates

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you know I am nothing special here so I

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didn't really think that was an accurate

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characterization he was there with

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another guy called Mike also called Mike

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from an organization which is basically

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him called exploring again which is

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about him trying to explore Antarctica

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and I'll get into that a little bit

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later so it's pretty much all they have

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another Friday next day saturday was the

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day that I was set to give a talk and

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various other people including Nathan

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Nathan Thompson my debate opponent was

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also set to give a talk so in the

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morning I made my way down to the

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conference hall which is way in the back

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down this long empty corridor and it was

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in this reasonable size room it had I

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think be about 160 seats in it there was

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nobody there when I arrived where she

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was about I guess quarter to nine or

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maybe 8:30 I was thinking I'll get there

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early because it was going to shut start

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at 9:00 as it happened he didn't really

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start until 10:00 and there weren't very

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many people there so I talked to the

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people who were there people who are

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setting up in the the outside room where

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there were some tables the first guy I

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talked to I met in the elevator on the

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way down I got in he got in after me and

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is this kind of wild build bearded guy

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looks a bit like Rasputin might look and

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he looked at me and went Mick West you

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know what yeah I was I can help you and

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I was like oh oh okay brother Ernest

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because I recognized him he was a guy

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called brother Ernest a kind of

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religious guy who believed the earth is

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actually concave like we live on the

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inside of the earth and he said yes talk

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to me later I can help you with Nathan

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which was a bit odd at the time but it

271
00:11:08,990 --> 00:11:07,740
turned out that

272
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:09,000
brother Ernest was actually a very nice

273
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,410
guy and he just wanted to give me a few

274
00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:12,480
pointers later about my debate with

275
00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:15,060
Nathan because I you know I didn't do

276
00:11:20,540 --> 00:11:16,920
anybody at this point I was a little bit

277
00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:20,550
nervous and it seemed a bit bit strange

278
00:11:27,130 --> 00:11:22,710
but he wasn't it wasn't it was all fine

279
00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:27,140
I got into the hall and no one was there

280
00:11:32,390 --> 00:11:30,600
in the audience yet and the first person

281
00:11:37,490 --> 00:11:32,400
I talked to was Dave Gordon who is one

282
00:11:40,970 --> 00:11:37,500
of the sponsors of this Expo he is a guy

283
00:11:43,550 --> 00:11:40,980
who has invented a camping stove of a

284
00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:43,560
sort which uses a kind of drafting

285
00:11:48,170 --> 00:11:45,720
technique to draw air up through a

286
00:11:49,550 --> 00:11:48,180
chimney and it's less gives less smoke

287
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:49,560
and more even heating and he has a

288
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:52,320
patent and he was selling this what this

289
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:54,570
has to do with Flat Earth I have no idea

290
00:12:00,650 --> 00:11:57,600
however I think he is a flat earther and

291
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:00,660
he wanted to go to the conference and he

292
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:03,450
saw the opportunity to try to to try to

293
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:05,760
promote his business which is selling

294
00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:10,560
these stoves and so so he said he

295
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:12,270
sponsored the conference to a degree I

296
00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:14,910
don't know to what degree and he was

297
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:16,260
showing off his little camping stove

298
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:18,090
which was it was a nice little stove

299
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:21,920
obviously it worked but I don't know

300
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:24,570
nothing to do with Flat Earth the next

301
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:25,920
person I talked to who did have a lot to

302
00:12:30,620 --> 00:12:28,160
do with Flat Earth his name was Chris

303
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:30,630
Pontius Chris Pontius

304
00:12:34,730 --> 00:12:33,210
he is a model maker he makes these

305
00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:34,740
lovely little models and some quite

306
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:37,230
large models of the Flat Earth the Flat

307
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:41,850
Earth Map and he has a round flat earth

308
00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:44,910
disc with a map white and it has a dome

309
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:47,550
over it a plastic dome and it has stars

310
00:12:51,380 --> 00:12:49,050
on it and some of them have little suns

311
00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:51,390
and moons that go around on like clock

312
00:12:58,970 --> 00:12:55,320
handles like pretty things he also were

313
00:13:02,360 --> 00:12:58,980
selling orgonite which is have these

314
00:13:04,340 --> 00:13:02,370
pretty paperweights type things which

315
00:13:08,180 --> 00:13:04,350
are made from various types of metal and

316
00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:08,190
crystals embedded in a type of acrylic

317
00:13:12,620 --> 00:13:10,590
clear acrylic so smear everything you

318
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:12,630
sometimes kids do is they make polka

319
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:14,250
paperweights out of acrylic and pouring

320
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:15,660
stuff in but these are very pretty ones

321
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:17,310
and they're supposed to have a very

322
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:20,310
specific way of gathering energy or

323
00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:20,970
going

324
00:13:25,249 --> 00:13:23,310
from the atmosphere and he also has some

325
00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:25,259
there was a combination of two it was an

326
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,230
organ bass with a flat earth map on top

327
00:13:32,689 --> 00:13:30,959
and he said that there was something you

328
00:13:36,139 --> 00:13:32,699
know there was some kind of orgonite

329
00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:36,149
feel that helped something I'm not sure

330
00:13:39,619 --> 00:13:37,500
exactly what anyway he was a nice guy

331
00:13:43,999 --> 00:13:39,629
you know most people there were nice

332
00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:44,009
nice people guys and women and the next

333
00:13:49,939 --> 00:13:47,790
person I talked to at sea was Russ Russ

334
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:49,949
I don't remember his full name I could

335
00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:52,649
put that in the notes but Russ ran

336
00:13:55,850 --> 00:13:53,910
something I think it's called a flat

337
00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:55,860
earth Media Group and he's trying to set

338
00:13:59,420 --> 00:13:57,870
up all kinds of like competitor to

339
00:14:01,119 --> 00:13:59,430
YouTube for people to put their Flat

340
00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:01,129
Earth videos on and doing Flat Earth

341
00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:05,300
radio shows and resources for Flat Earth

342
00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:08,670
photos and things like that he seemed

343
00:14:14,059 --> 00:14:11,550
quite nice and so at some point he

344
00:14:17,329 --> 00:14:14,069
started talking about how terrible it

345
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,339
was in Europe with all the immigrants

346
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:20,160
coming in which to me sounded a little

347
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:23,250
bit maybe mmm like he didn't like

348
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:26,850
Muslims you know I'm sure he would just

349
00:14:32,299 --> 00:14:30,120
say you know he didn't like the changing

350
00:14:35,299 --> 00:14:32,309
culture or it wasn't being done right or

351
00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:35,309
was all his problems with radicalization

352
00:14:39,319 --> 00:14:36,920
and I talked a bit about my upbringing

353
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:39,329
near Bradford which has a big Muslim

354
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:41,279
population you know back in the 70s and

355
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:44,639
how there wasn't really any more

356
00:14:50,269 --> 00:14:46,410
problems than you expect from various

357
00:14:54,650 --> 00:14:50,279
diverse cultures blending together but

358
00:14:56,809 --> 00:14:54,660
you know he's very polite okay and so

359
00:15:00,259 --> 00:14:56,819
then the conference got started I think

360
00:15:01,819 --> 00:15:00,269
around 10:00 or 11:00 and Russ started

361
00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:01,829
it off and there was another woman that

362
00:15:06,499 --> 00:15:03,569
called Shelly who weren't so kind of

363
00:15:08,030 --> 00:15:06,509
flattered with radio I think it's called

364
00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:08,040
down the rabbit hole or just kind of

365
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:09,180
interesting because I have a book called

366
00:15:12,740 --> 00:15:10,800
escaping the rabbit hole of course this

367
00:15:15,019 --> 00:15:12,750
podcast is called tales from the rabbit

368
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,029
hole so I was very much in the rabbit

369
00:15:19,249 --> 00:15:17,519
hole at that moment and Russ and Shelly

370
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,259
basically kind of interviewed each other

371
00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:21,839
at that point there was some other talks

372
00:15:25,490 --> 00:15:23,430
from some of the other people there

373
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,500
chris pontius got up and gave a short

374
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:27,360
talk but he wasn't really into talking

375
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:30,360
and then there was a much longer talk

376
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:33,700
from Mad Mike Hughes

377
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:37,090
the rocket man and his rocket scientist

378
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,530
who's the guy who actually builds the

379
00:15:43,890 --> 00:15:40,480
Rockets for him now the rocket scientist

380
00:15:46,770 --> 00:15:43,900
is called Waldo Waldo something again

381
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:46,780
yes sorry I spaced out on these second

382
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:50,050
named Waldo doesn't really seem to think

383
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:51,490
that the earth is flat and you know he

384
00:15:55,170 --> 00:15:52,810
mentioned several times things like

385
00:15:58,890 --> 00:15:55,180
going to the moon and rockets going into

386
00:16:01,560 --> 00:15:58,900
space so he didn't really seem like he

387
00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:01,570
he fit in but you know he kept trying to

388
00:16:06,090 --> 00:16:04,120
say things like when we went to the moon

389
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:06,100
if we actually did you know you could

390
00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:07,390
tell he really actually thought we went

391
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:09,400
to the moon or at least assumed that was

392
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:12,250
true he gave a kind of a presentation

393
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:13,930
basically explaining some things about

394
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:15,910
the Rockets that my mic was going to use

395
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,130
and it was a little bit chaotic because

396
00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:20,320
he didn't use the microphone and his

397
00:16:23,790 --> 00:16:21,820
wife got there and she was holding the

398
00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:23,800
microphone in his face and it was he's

399
00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:25,300
trying to get a slide show but all he

400
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:26,950
had was his little laptop and so he was

401
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:28,450
pointing at things on this laptop but

402
00:16:32,010 --> 00:16:29,710
people who sat at the back of the room

403
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:32,020
so they couldn't see or hear because he

404
00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:34,720
wasn't using the microphone but you know

405
00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:36,070
you've got a general idea that he's

406
00:16:41,310 --> 00:16:38,500
building a rocket and he's done a bunch

407
00:16:45,150 --> 00:16:41,320
of fun tests out in the desert and that

408
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:45,160
it plans to take Mike into space my talk

409
00:16:51,330 --> 00:16:49,810
was basically mmm trying to get people

410
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:51,340
to look at the Flat Earth problem in

411
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:53,920
different ways people often give these

412
00:16:58,140 --> 00:16:56,800
different different lists of proofs you

413
00:17:00,380 --> 00:16:58,150
know this is a proof of there's proof of

414
00:17:02,510 --> 00:17:00,390
that but I try to get people to look at

415
00:17:06,420 --> 00:17:02,520
the way there are different models

416
00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:06,430
different models of the world and you

417
00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:08,110
need to understand which model you're

418
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:10,030
you're using whether it's a

419
00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:12,550
simplification or a more accurate model

420
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:14,830
or a you know more super accurate

421
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:16,810
complex model I gave examples like

422
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:19,600
gravity you know gravity can be looked

423
00:17:22,740 --> 00:17:21,370
at in three ways it can be just a force

424
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:22,750
that goes straight down towards the

425
00:17:28,410 --> 00:17:25,510
ground or it can be a force between two

426
00:17:29,820 --> 00:17:28,420
objects like two planets or a planet and

427
00:17:32,330 --> 00:17:29,830
you which means it goes towards the

428
00:17:35,490 --> 00:17:32,340
center of the earth or it can be this

429
00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:35,500
Einstein's bending a space-time you know

430
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:36,820
special relativity general relativity

431
00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:42,130
and you've got to understand which model

432
00:17:46,260 --> 00:17:43,870
you're using so I gave this long talk

433
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:46,270
and I give a bunch of examples and I

434
00:17:50,110 --> 00:17:47,450
gave

435
00:17:51,970 --> 00:17:50,120
a few examples of experiments that I

436
00:17:54,670 --> 00:17:51,980
thought that we're not answered by the

437
00:17:56,650 --> 00:17:54,680
Flat Earth model I gave a long spiel

438
00:17:58,780 --> 00:17:56,660
about how latitude and longitude don't

439
00:18:00,520 --> 00:17:58,790
actually work as Australia on the Flat

440
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:00,530
Earth Map gets really stretched out and

441
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:03,080
if you try to compress it so it works

442
00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:05,210
better than the latitude and longitude

443
00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:07,400
lines don't line up so I give all these

444
00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:09,140
things some of these things I would have

445
00:18:14,050 --> 00:18:11,240
expected them to be familiar with but it

446
00:18:15,010 --> 00:18:14,060
seems like a lot of the time the things

447
00:18:18,910 --> 00:18:15,020
I was saying weren't really getting

448
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:18,920
across I try to explain one thing where

449
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,110
you could see one mountain was below

450
00:18:26,790 --> 00:18:22,880
another when you'd expect it to be above

451
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:26,800
the other and yeah I don't really think

452
00:18:30,490 --> 00:18:29,330
that when I got across to people in the

453
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:30,500
audience so you know talk to people

454
00:18:33,550 --> 00:18:31,850
afterwards and no one even kind of

455
00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:33,560
brought it up they basically just kind

456
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:35,270
of ignored a lot of a lot of my points

457
00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:38,240
and stayed with their own points now if

458
00:18:43,390 --> 00:18:41,030
just before this talk I met Nathan

459
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,400
Thompson who is my debate opponent who

460
00:18:49,090 --> 00:18:45,440
was going to give a talk after me and I

461
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:49,100
gave him a crystal a prism a prisoner a

462
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:51,170
triangular prism that type he used to

463
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:54,530
split light into a rainbow and I gave it

464
00:18:57,790 --> 00:18:56,000
to him and I told him that you can use

465
00:19:01,510 --> 00:18:57,800
it to verify where the light is being

466
00:19:03,130 --> 00:19:01,520
bent or up by with what colors you see

467
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,140
on the edge of things I told me was to

468
00:19:06,850 --> 00:19:05,360
do with the green flash I didn't have

469
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:06,860
much time to get details with him but I

470
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:09,950
gave it to him and then in my talk I got

471
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:13,250
the crystal out got the prism out and I

472
00:19:19,780 --> 00:19:16,490
used it to demonstrate this effect the

473
00:19:23,410 --> 00:19:19,790
reason I did this was nathan has a proof

474
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:23,420
of the Flat Earth where he looks at the

475
00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:26,090
Setting Sun and he sees that at the top

476
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:27,500
of the Setting Sun though sometimes a

477
00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:29,570
little green flash this is quite famous

478
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:31,430
type thing you can look at a green flash

479
00:19:40,030 --> 00:19:36,400
setting Sun and he rationalized that

480
00:19:45,070 --> 00:19:40,040
because green light is bent down more

481
00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:45,080
than red light this meant that the Sun

482
00:19:48,010 --> 00:19:46,580
was actually higher than it appears

483
00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:48,020
meaning it was actually above the

484
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,780
horizon now when he made this argument

485
00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:53,360
which is made several times before when

486
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:55,070
he made the argument I saw it on the

487
00:19:59,050 --> 00:19:55,610
video

488
00:20:00,940 --> 00:19:59,060
I recognized he got it backwards in fact

489
00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:00,950
when something is bent down

490
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:02,840
light is bent down it raises up the

491
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:04,970
image so the more the light is benched

492
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:06,680
the higher the image is raised and so

493
00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:08,150
you get this little green flash above

494
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:10,220
the image which means the light is being

495
00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:12,410
bent down which means the image is being

496
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:15,230
raised up which means that the Sun is

497
00:20:20,010 --> 00:20:17,660
actually below the horizon so what he

498
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:20,020
had put out as a proof of the Flat Earth

499
00:20:26,290 --> 00:20:23,110
was actually if you use his reasoning a

500
00:20:27,490 --> 00:20:26,300
proof of the globe earth and I thought

501
00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:27,500
this was a very interesting thing to

502
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:28,700
show - and I didn't want it just

503
00:20:34,990 --> 00:20:31,820
entirely you know jump surprised him

504
00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:35,000
with this so before my speech I gave him

505
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:38,150
the prism and briefly told him what it

506
00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:40,310
was about then in my speech I got it out

507
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:41,990
and I actually kind of tried to

508
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:42,890
demonstrate - you can't really

509
00:20:46,030 --> 00:20:43,970
demonstrate because you actually had to

510
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:46,040
look through it but I showed how to do

511
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:47,840
it I held up the president I held up a

512
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:51,050
glowing ping-pong ball light that I used

513
00:20:54,790 --> 00:20:53,210
to simulate the Sun and I explained you

514
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:54,800
hold it like this and you will see that

515
00:20:58,780 --> 00:20:57,110
it's green on the top which means that

516
00:21:00,460 --> 00:20:58,790
the Sun is below the horizon which means

517
00:21:02,110 --> 00:21:00,470
that the earth is a globe doesn't matter

518
00:21:03,460 --> 00:21:02,120
if you don't follow this exactly the

519
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:03,470
logic of this argument because most

520
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:05,450
people that didn't either just you know

521
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:06,980
it is an argument there's actually a

522
00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:11,570
valid argument and so at the end of my

523
00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:14,030
speech Nathan gave up code to give his

524
00:21:18,670 --> 00:21:16,430
speech his presentation and he gave his

525
00:21:20,590 --> 00:21:18,680
presentation and he gave basically he

526
00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:20,600
reiterated a loss of the usual points

527
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:22,100
that he made and I made loads and loads

528
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:24,290
of notes about what all these points

529
00:21:29,140 --> 00:21:25,730
were so I could bring them up again in

530
00:21:30,550 --> 00:21:29,150
the debate the next day and when a right

531
00:21:34,090 --> 00:21:30,560
at the end he got an audience member to

532
00:21:36,250 --> 00:21:34,100
come up and look through the prism but

533
00:21:38,350 --> 00:21:36,260
he held it upside down which when the

534
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,360
light was being bent up and so the woman

535
00:21:41,620 --> 00:21:40,400
said oh he's red on top there so which

536
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:41,630
it sure would be because he's doing it

537
00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:46,250
upside down and I tried to explain this

538
00:21:50,530 --> 00:21:48,680
to him afterwards but it became a

539
00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:50,540
clearer the next day I get into this

540
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:53,150
more later so we gave our speeches and

541
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:55,370
then there were some other people giving

542
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:57,410
speeches afterwards essay speeches but

543
00:22:04,270 --> 00:22:01,280
it's really a presentation and then are

544
00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:04,280
you I went outside I think maybe it was

545
00:22:07,930 --> 00:22:06,920
like the the rocket stove guy was giving

546
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:07,940
a talk and she wasn't really that

547
00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:10,370
interested or somebody was giving a talk

548
00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:11,480
which wasn't that interesting I went

549
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:12,740
outside and I talked to some other

550
00:22:16,060 --> 00:22:14,210
people outside

551
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:16,070
really long and very productive

552
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:19,370
conversation with a guy called Joe Joe

553
00:22:26,740 --> 00:22:21,530
just basically said hi to me and the

554
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:26,750
hallway outside the conference and you

555
00:22:29,890 --> 00:22:28,370
know I just asked him what he was doing

556
00:22:31,570 --> 00:22:29,900
there and you're why you can see at this

557
00:22:34,540 --> 00:22:31,580
flat and he just you know basically we

558
00:22:36,190 --> 00:22:34,550
start to discussing various things and

559
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:36,200
he would say things like you know you

560
00:22:41,530 --> 00:22:38,510
can see across a lake you can see a

561
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:41,540
laser across a lake and I explained to

562
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:44,480
him you know why that is because this

563
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:46,250
refraction over the surface of water

564
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:48,050
because water is cool and cool there

565
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:49,490
bends light down it bends the light

566
00:22:53,530 --> 00:22:51,950
around the lake you can see across the

567
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:53,540
lake and I told him he really needs to

568
00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:55,490
get higher and I showed him some

569
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:58,610
pictures of mountains where you've got a

570
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:01,280
10,000 foot high mountain and 9,500 feet

571
00:23:07,150 --> 00:23:04,880
of it is behind the curve which is a

572
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:07,160
very very difficult thing to explain in

573
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:09,170
the Flat Earth model now of course

574
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:11,570
they'll say things like its perspective

575
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:14,960
or its atmospheric refraction but it

576
00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:17,090
doesn't really work in fact in my talk I

577
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:19,780
devoted quite a large section of my talk

578
00:23:24,790 --> 00:23:22,790
to explaining refraction or explaining

579
00:23:27,370 --> 00:23:24,800
perspective explaining how perspective

580
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:27,380
works people think of perspective in

581
00:23:31,870 --> 00:23:28,850
terms of what you learn in art class

582
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:31,880
with vanishing points and things getting

583
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:34,010
smaller in like regular intervals that

584
00:23:37,660 --> 00:23:35,450
go down the road so you can draw lines

585
00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:37,670
on along the tops of things like light

586
00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:39,980
posts and you get these vanishing points

587
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:41,950
at the end of the road on the horizon

588
00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:43,610
but that's actually really a

589
00:23:47,950 --> 00:23:46,190
simplification and that's partly to do

590
00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:47,960
with what I was talking about with these

591
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:50,560
simple models versus complex models

592
00:23:56,290 --> 00:23:54,110
perspective is actually that things get

593
00:23:57,970 --> 00:23:56,300
smaller inversely proportional to their

594
00:23:59,920 --> 00:23:57,980
distance so something's twice as far

595
00:24:02,620 --> 00:23:59,930
away as half the size some things 5

596
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:02,630
times away it's one-fifth the size and

597
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:03,890
it's slightly more complicated than that

598
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:06,530
really versus the basics of it and

599
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:09,110
that's actually the the better model to

600
00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:11,270
use the perspective thing is just tricks

601
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:13,480
for artists and so if you actually use

602
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,370
the real model of perspective and I

603
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:18,320
showed I show some interesting diagrams

604
00:24:23,230 --> 00:24:20,810
of perspective machines that we use back

605
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:23,240
in the 1500s by artists to do

606
00:24:27,539 --> 00:24:25,490
perspective drawings of things and they

607
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:27,549
used lines of sight

608
00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:29,919
intersecting with an image plane that

609
00:24:34,139 --> 00:24:31,870
they then used to record the positions

610
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:34,149
of things fascinating stuff and look at

611
00:24:37,019 --> 00:24:35,320
perspective machines if you're

612
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:37,029
interested and I explained how this was

613
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:38,799
essentially the same as the camera and

614
00:24:42,029 --> 00:24:40,270
it's the same as 3d graphics and

615
00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:42,039
computers and it's the same as the human

616
00:24:45,299 --> 00:24:43,270
eye it's all the same it's all to do

617
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,309
with lines of sight so there's a line of

618
00:24:50,070 --> 00:24:47,440
sight between your eye or your camera

619
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:50,080
and an object then you can see it so

620
00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:51,730
you've got these mountains that if it

621
00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:53,230
was a flat earth you would have a line

622
00:24:57,060 --> 00:24:55,630
of sight between you and the bottom of

623
00:24:58,380 --> 00:24:57,070
the mountain and the middle of the

624
00:25:00,990 --> 00:24:58,390
mountain and the top of the mountain and

625
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:01,000
yet you can only see the very peak of it

626
00:25:06,389 --> 00:25:04,240
just peeking over the the horizon just

627
00:25:09,210 --> 00:25:06,399
like a few hundred feet when it's a

628
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:09,220
several thousand foot high mountain so

629
00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:10,330
it's a very difficult thing for them to

630
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,340
explain and I was kind of getting into a

631
00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:14,559
lot of detail with this with Joe and we

632
00:25:19,139 --> 00:25:16,870
had a good conversation and I think he

633
00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:19,149
you know he I gave him something to

634
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:21,340
think about he bought me a beer and I

635
00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:23,529
gave him a copy of my book and we parted

636
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:25,929
as friends and hopefully hopefully he'll

637
00:25:29,730 --> 00:25:28,570
see this and maybe hey Joe if you're out

638
00:25:31,950 --> 00:25:29,740
there get in touch with me maybe you'd

639
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:31,960
like to be on my podcast touch a few

640
00:25:37,860 --> 00:25:34,570
other people as a variety of people

641
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:37,870
there one guy kept asking me why we

642
00:25:42,269 --> 00:25:39,760
can't see photographs of upside down

643
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:42,279
buildings which is an interesting

644
00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:45,370
question because it's not it's not

645
00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:46,600
really a sensible question it kind of

646
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:48,520
sounds like a sensible question but in

647
00:25:52,889 --> 00:25:50,529
space he doesn't was no really up and

648
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:52,899
down if you look at pictures of

649
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:54,970
buildings in Australia that's and

650
00:25:58,980 --> 00:25:57,250
they're upside down that's just because

651
00:26:01,080 --> 00:25:58,990
someone's turned the camera so the

652
00:26:03,149 --> 00:26:01,090
horizon is at the top of the image

653
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:03,159
rather than the horizon being at the

654
00:26:07,409 --> 00:26:05,110
bottom of the image it just depends on

655
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:07,419
which way you are in your camera and I

656
00:26:11,639 --> 00:26:10,390
was trying to explain this to him but it

657
00:26:13,620 --> 00:26:11,649
wasn't really getting across and he kept

658
00:26:15,740 --> 00:26:13,630
asking about why aren't there pictures

659
00:26:18,779 --> 00:26:15,750
from space is upside down buildings and

660
00:26:21,019 --> 00:26:18,789
you know really the answer is that when

661
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:21,029
people take photos of things from space

662
00:26:26,970 --> 00:26:25,210
they turn the camera so that up is going

663
00:26:28,769 --> 00:26:26,980
into space and down is going down to the

664
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:28,779
ground and I try to explain this to him

665
00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:31,330
I'm gonna show them a few pictures taken

666
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:33,220
from the space station but I don't think

667
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:35,679
he was convinced he seemed he seems to

668
00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:37,840
be a fan of the infinite plane Society

669
00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:39,520
and the everything is fake model and I

670
00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:40,870
think he was

671
00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:43,630
it was very mm very caught up in this

672
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:45,790
particular piece of evidence of his I

673
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:47,440
think I've seen him post online and he's

674
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:50,559
constantly posting these pictures of a

675
00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:52,720
ship upside down on the bottom of the

676
00:26:56,670 --> 00:26:54,190
earth and saying look how silly this is

677
00:26:58,350 --> 00:26:56,680
this ship would fall off the earth which

678
00:27:00,510 --> 00:26:58,360
of course you know he's using the wrong

679
00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:00,520
model of gravity it's using the gravity

680
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:02,440
always goes down towards the bottom of

681
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:06,010
the picture model of course gravity

682
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:07,840
actually goes towards the center of the

683
00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:10,450
earth and in which case this ship being

684
00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:14,950
upside down works just fine so talk to

685
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,900
him for a while talk to another guy

686
00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:18,880
called Nathan Gonzales I had several

687
00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:20,950
conversations with Nathan he was a very

688
00:27:25,740 --> 00:27:23,100
interesting guy he has done a lot of

689
00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:25,750
experiments which is great you know it's

690
00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:27,220
great to do experiments but they're all

691
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:29,590
kind of experiments where you go up to a

692
00:27:33,930 --> 00:27:31,710
body of water like the Salton Sea and

693
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:33,940
you shine a light across it either a

694
00:27:38,010 --> 00:27:36,250
laser or you use reflected sunlight

695
00:27:39,450 --> 00:27:38,020
which is which is a very good thing it's

696
00:27:42,299 --> 00:27:39,460
like kind of like a laser beam in a way

697
00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:42,309
it's just very broad beam and abroad

698
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:44,380
it's a broader but so narrow beam of

699
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:46,960
light which you can flash across a lake

700
00:27:50,910 --> 00:27:49,240
and you have these observations where

701
00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:50,920
you have the light source that's fairly

702
00:27:54,419 --> 00:27:52,900
low down you have the camera that's

703
00:27:57,419 --> 00:27:54,429
fairly low down both around say three to

704
00:28:00,000 --> 00:27:57,429
six feet and you have them separated by

705
00:28:01,890 --> 00:28:00,010
ten miles of water and you know do they

706
00:28:03,090 --> 00:28:01,900
should if there was no atmosphere you

707
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:03,100
wouldn't be able to see one from the

708
00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:06,330
other and you can see a flash of light

709
00:28:11,610 --> 00:28:09,790
from one side but so the reason you can

710
00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:11,620
see it is again because of refraction

711
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:17,950
and refraction is at its strongest just

712
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:20,050
over the water this water is generally

713
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,510
colder than air it cools the air down

714
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:24,640
above it and that makes the eye denser

715
00:28:29,250 --> 00:28:26,820
makes it sink and makes it denser and

716
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:29,260
like it's bent towards this denser air

717
00:28:32,610 --> 00:28:30,730
very very slightly but over ten miles

718
00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:32,620
it's quite significant ten miles in a

719
00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:34,600
few feet in ten miles is a very very

720
00:28:39,270 --> 00:28:37,270
very very very very slight curve but

721
00:28:40,919 --> 00:28:39,280
it's enough to raise something up above

722
00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:40,929
the curve of the earth and make it

723
00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:42,900
visible and I explained this to him and

724
00:28:48,169 --> 00:28:45,160
he was saying I didn't think there was

725
00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:48,179
enough refraction and I didn't really

726
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,980
explain what he was seeing I showed him

727
00:28:54,390 --> 00:28:52,000
the pictures of the mountain where

728
00:28:57,210 --> 00:28:54,400
you've got 10,000 feet missing 9 tower

729
00:29:00,140 --> 00:28:57,220
500 feet we're seeing whatever and then

730
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:00,150
he said oh well that's just refraction

731
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:02,290
always said that's perspective and

732
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:05,290
refraction so that's bidadi it doesn't

733
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:07,270
admit that you could you know refraction

734
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:08,650
could raise something up a few feet

735
00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:11,410
around the curve but he is fine

736
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:13,270
I don't remember EB city refraction

737
00:29:18,030 --> 00:29:15,280
exactly if there's more perspective he's

738
00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:18,040
fine with 9500 feet being hidden by

739
00:29:22,290 --> 00:29:19,870
refraction so it's kind of a little

740
00:29:25,290 --> 00:29:22,300
probably to disconnect that and I try to

741
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:25,300
explain things to him where he can

742
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:28,000
rejected my explanations and I think I

743
00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:32,310
think it's really that he genuinely

744
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:35,500
didn't understand my explanations which

745
00:29:39,870 --> 00:29:37,750
obviously is partly because I'm not

746
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:39,880
doing a very good job explaining it and

747
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:42,130
I don't really have the visual aids I

748
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:45,130
don't have the the time to go through in

749
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:47,410
detail and build up things like this is

750
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:50,170
how cameras work this is how you're this

751
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:51,910
is how vision works I think he missed

752
00:29:58,050 --> 00:29:56,530
that section of my talk so he wasn't

753
00:30:01,730 --> 00:29:58,060
understanding what I was saying about

754
00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:01,740
how perspective couldn't do this and

755
00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:03,910
Nathan if you're watching I apologize if

756
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:06,220
I misrepresent you I might be conflating

757
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:08,410
some of your positions with other people

758
00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:09,490
I talked to you I talked to so many

759
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:10,150
people

760
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:12,850
but he said basically there was an

761
00:30:17,970 --> 00:30:15,520
explanation for why all these thousands

762
00:30:20,460 --> 00:30:17,980
of feet or mounting was missing but my

763
00:30:23,450 --> 00:30:20,470
explanation of refraction didn't make

764
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:23,460
sense for his observations of a few feet

765
00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:26,320
being not missing in terms of being able

766
00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:28,270
to see the light the whole light thing

767
00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:30,750
with lasers going over water is

768
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:33,070
complicated and I made a video I think

769
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:37,120
it's called laser tests are misleading

770
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:39,130
you can look that up on the comment on

771
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:44,170
my youtube channel so see that's pretty

772
00:30:47,820 --> 00:30:45,610
much it for that day and that kind of

773
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:47,830
went off and did my own thing for the

774
00:30:52,170 --> 00:30:50,650
evening people weren't really that

775
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:52,180
interested in socializing with me it

776
00:30:56,430 --> 00:30:54,370
same day but I you know talked a lot of

777
00:30:57,930 --> 00:30:56,440
people actually amped there was a

778
00:30:59,520 --> 00:30:57,940
conference room but after that I never

779
00:31:01,800 --> 00:30:59,530
saw anybody they were worried you know

780
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:01,810
was in a hotel but it was in a casino

781
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:03,970
with like several thousand people and so

782
00:31:07,410 --> 00:31:06,490
I just never saw anybody outside of the

783
00:31:13,050 --> 00:31:07,420
actual

784
00:31:16,020 --> 00:31:13,060
conference room next day next day was

785
00:31:17,970 --> 00:31:16,030
Sunday the big day the debate and this

786
00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:17,980
was kind of what the whole conference

787
00:31:23,550 --> 00:31:21,550
was promoted as being this ultimate Flat

788
00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:23,560
Earth debates between Nathan Thompson

789
00:31:30,390 --> 00:31:26,470
and Mick West famous flat earther and

790
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:30,400
flat earther debunker in the morning

791
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:32,860
though the debate was set for 3:30 in

792
00:31:36,390 --> 00:31:33,910
the afternoon in the morning there was a

793
00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:36,400
few more speeches Mike got up again in

794
00:31:41,820 --> 00:31:37,780
the morning he was the first speaker mad

795
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:41,830
Mike and he gave a long talk on the

796
00:31:48,510 --> 00:31:44,170
state of the Flat Earth community which

797
00:31:53,550 --> 00:31:48,520
is basically him complaining that people

798
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:53,560
weren't taking him seriously that the

799
00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:55,150
other people in the Flat Earth community

800
00:32:01,200 --> 00:31:57,720
was for some reason blowing him off and

801
00:32:03,030 --> 00:32:01,210
that he didn't get invited to the

802
00:32:05,910 --> 00:32:03,040
conference the other conference in

803
00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:05,920
Dallas and so he kind of set up this

804
00:32:11,370 --> 00:32:08,230
conference kind of as a response to that

805
00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:11,380
and he went on about this at some length

806
00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:14,790
he also shared a few theories he had

807
00:32:19,530 --> 00:32:16,900
which are kind of similar to the

808
00:32:21,870 --> 00:32:19,540
sovereign citizen movement although he

809
00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:21,880
doesn't like that term but it's things

810
00:32:30,780 --> 00:32:25,920
like legalistic pseudo legal type things

811
00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:30,790
where you do things like use your name

812
00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:33,340
in all lowercase or all uppercase oh you

813
00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:35,080
don't capitalize it and he had a

814
00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:37,780
different legal meaning and he said he

815
00:32:44,790 --> 00:32:41,380
had registered the usage of names like

816
00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:44,800
Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates for some

817
00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:47,020
things to various famous people so they

818
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:50,230
shouldn't legally be able to use it you

819
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:52,180
know stuff that really doesn't make

820
00:32:56,910 --> 00:32:54,610
sense from a practical legal point of

821
00:32:59,730 --> 00:32:56,920
view is you know I think he has an

822
00:33:01,560 --> 00:32:59,740
argument as to why this is true that

823
00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:01,570
when you actually go to court

824
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:04,060
obviously the judge is going to say well

825
00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:05,770
we get Mark Zuckerberg it's just fine

826
00:33:13,380 --> 00:33:09,340
using his name so it's not bothering us

827
00:33:16,110 --> 00:33:13,390
and then he gave a little bit of a talk

828
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:16,120
about doing it space and how he thought

829
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:18,610
it you know you really need people don't

830
00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:20,650
trust what other people tell them so

831
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:21,190
they had to see

832
00:33:25,890 --> 00:33:23,290
for their own eyes or CB as someone who

833
00:33:27,420 --> 00:33:25,900
they trust so he's gonna go up look at

834
00:33:29,310 --> 00:33:27,430
SIA the curve of the earth come back and

835
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:29,320
tell us and they'll have cameras showing

836
00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:31,690
what everybody else is seeing then his

837
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:34,390
his rocket guy his rocket scientist guy

838
00:33:38,550 --> 00:33:35,250
waldo

839
00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:38,560
got up while those strikes i think his

840
00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:41,950
name is check the check oh no so i put

841
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:43,660
it in there he got up and gave a long

842
00:33:46,590 --> 00:33:45,490
detailed explanation of how the rocket

843
00:33:49,410 --> 00:33:46,600
was going to work and it's basically

844
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:49,420
just you know a liquid fuel rocket I

845
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:51,760
believe yeah I think it's liquid fuel

846
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:54,130
and he's in a little capsule in the end

847
00:33:56,790 --> 00:33:55,330
and there's a balloon and the balloon

848
00:33:59,610 --> 00:33:56,800
takes in that part way then the rocket

849
00:34:04,320 --> 00:33:59,620
goes up the rest of the way it looked

850
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:04,330
very dangerous I think yeah Mike can add

851
00:34:09,180 --> 00:34:07,120
Mike if he actually does this stands a

852
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:09,190
good chance of dying if he does it

853
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:10,990
because it's a very very dangerous

854
00:34:17,850 --> 00:34:14,650
looking thing he's got an amateur rocket

855
00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:17,860
maker building a rocket yeah I'm sure

856
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:21,150
Waldo has a very high opinion of his own

857
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:23,470
abilities and he did actually get a

858
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:25,510
rocket to go several hundred feet up in

859
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:28,240
the air but you know he's talking about

860
00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:32,050
sending a rocket up above breathable

861
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:34,420
atmosphere into a position where it

862
00:34:39,060 --> 00:34:35,770
would take several minutes to fall back

863
00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:39,070
down so it's got to not explode it's

864
00:34:44,370 --> 00:34:40,990
gonna not leak it's got to go up and not

865
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:44,380
fly down into the ground it's got it got

866
00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:46,690
his oxygen suppliers got to work his

867
00:34:51,390 --> 00:34:48,940
heating has to work because it's pretty

868
00:34:53,790 --> 00:34:51,400
cold up there yeah everything has to go

869
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:53,800
to plan and then the parachute has to

870
00:34:59,100 --> 00:34:56,530
work coming back down again he gave an

871
00:35:02,250 --> 00:34:59,110
amusing anecdotes with a previous rocket

872
00:35:05,310 --> 00:35:02,260
where he said when the parachute opened

873
00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:05,320
it was going at I think 300 miles an

874
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:07,270
hour and the parachute was only rated

875
00:35:11,130 --> 00:35:09,250
for 100 miles now I said that it was

876
00:35:12,570 --> 00:35:11,140
three times over the rating and they

877
00:35:14,220 --> 00:35:12,580
gave a good laugh about there but

878
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:14,230
obviously if it hadn't worked mad Mike

879
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:17,110
would have died so it all seems a bit a

880
00:35:20,490 --> 00:35:17,920
bit dangerous

881
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:20,500
and again this Waldo guy doesn't really

882
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:22,690
seem to think the earth is flat then

883
00:35:27,420 --> 00:35:24,790
that was taught by Shelley Shelley was

884
00:35:30,270 --> 00:35:27,430
the lady who opened the conference with

885
00:35:33,930 --> 00:35:30,280
Russ the previous day and she runs this

886
00:35:34,770 --> 00:35:33,940
flat earth radio thing rabbit hole down

887
00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:34,780
the rabbit hole

888
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:37,750
she gave a talk about the forest fires

889
00:35:42,930 --> 00:35:40,240
in California and specifically the camp

890
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:42,940
fire which destroyed the town of

891
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:45,610
Paradise quite close to where I live I'm

892
00:35:49,740 --> 00:35:47,290
just about 80 miles from there as the

893
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:49,750
crow flies so something I've been very

894
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,490
interested in and I was fascinated to

895
00:35:56,670 --> 00:35:53,680
hear her talk on the topic because I've

896
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:56,680
given talks a talk on the topic to a

897
00:35:59,820 --> 00:35:58,090
skeptic organization and I've written

898
00:36:01,770 --> 00:35:59,830
many many articles about it and I've

899
00:36:03,570 --> 00:36:01,780
talked about it in various other

900
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:03,580
people's podcast so I knew a lot about

901
00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:06,970
it and she basically just went over the

902
00:36:11,730 --> 00:36:09,400
usual kind of conspiracy points like why

903
00:36:13,860 --> 00:36:11,740
why is the house burnt but a tree next

904
00:36:16,170 --> 00:36:13,870
to it hasn't burnt why is the glass

905
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,180
melted in this car if you know cars

906
00:36:21,660 --> 00:36:18,400
if the melting temperature of glass is

907
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:21,670
higher than the burning temperature of a

908
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:24,480
fire why are these wheels melted and

909
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:27,010
here things like I just why aren't the

910
00:36:31,830 --> 00:36:29,230
why aren't the garbage cans that are in

911
00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:31,840
the road or melted when a house nearby

912
00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:35,620
has fallen down I try to get not to get

913
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:37,990
too distracted by this because I was

914
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:39,850
going to give my talk later and so I

915
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:41,890
didn't want to get distracted but I did

916
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:43,930
ask her one question because she kept

917
00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:46,930
pointing to the glass in the car melting

918
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:49,150
and she said in a glass melts at 2,700

919
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:51,370
degrees or something and fires burn it

920
00:36:58,020 --> 00:36:54,190
like you know 11 or 12 hundred degrees

921
00:36:59,940 --> 00:36:58,030
and I looked it up while she was there

922
00:37:02,520 --> 00:36:59,950
and I asked her a question I said well

923
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:02,530
two things a glass doesn't melt in a

924
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:04,450
microwave because he was saying that it

925
00:37:08,610 --> 00:37:06,970
was a microwave microwave from space

926
00:37:11,610 --> 00:37:08,620
basically because they were affecting

927
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:11,620
metal more than plastic bus doesn't melt

928
00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:13,450
in a microwave and the softening point

929
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:16,600
of glass so which it sags is 1,100

930
00:37:22,980 --> 00:37:19,690
degrees yeah and she kind of just blew

931
00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:22,990
that point off but really it was it took

932
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:24,670
a good chunk of her evidence away

933
00:37:28,110 --> 00:37:26,080
because she was showing all these wind

934
00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:28,120
screens that are basically slumped and

935
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:29,500
shattered and they weren't melted

936
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:31,330
they're just kind of slumped down and

937
00:37:35,940 --> 00:37:33,490
they've folded over what was below them

938
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:35,950
and generally they they win screen

939
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:37,810
usually shattered because of thermal

940
00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:40,990
expansion that's see how I told her this

941
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:43,000
and she just kind of moved on to other

942
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:45,430
things and didn't really answer it just

943
00:37:50,430 --> 00:37:45,910
kinda

944
00:37:54,049 --> 00:37:50,440
nor to the point so all right so let's

945
00:37:57,029 --> 00:37:54,059
see that day other people get talks

946
00:38:01,380 --> 00:37:57,039
brother Ernest gave a talk about how the

947
00:38:03,150 --> 00:38:01,390
earth was a gonna have a ball works were

948
00:38:05,730 --> 00:38:03,160
on the inside of I missed that one Dave

949
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:05,740
Gordon gave an explanation of his rocket

950
00:38:09,779 --> 00:38:07,270
stove I think and then talked about

951
00:38:12,690 --> 00:38:09,789
something called the medicine man didn't

952
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:12,700
really see that one and a very

953
00:38:21,089 --> 00:38:16,390
interesting talk was Mike from exploring

954
00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:21,099
again he has this scheme where he wants

955
00:38:27,059 --> 00:38:23,160
to go to the South Pole he wants to fly

956
00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:27,069
to the South Pole and then ski south

957
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:31,569
from it using a ski sail where you get

958
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:33,730
this big sail like in a paragliding type

959
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:35,710
thing we have the wind pull you along

960
00:38:41,279 --> 00:38:38,410
while you stand on skis this was all

961
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,289
very odd for a number of reasons first

962
00:38:47,549 --> 00:38:43,599
of all they don't really think that the

963
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:47,559
South Pole exists and yeah I think he

964
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:49,930
was kind of giving the standard

965
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:51,730
explanation though the South Pole is a

966
00:38:55,140 --> 00:38:53,650
big ring around the flat earth and so

967
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:55,150
anywhere on the ring on the outside is

968
00:39:00,569 --> 00:38:58,960
the South Pole but he was also a the

969
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:00,579
opinion that you can take a flight to

970
00:39:04,890 --> 00:39:03,130
the South Pole which doesn't really make

971
00:39:05,940 --> 00:39:04,900
any sense because everybody else thinks

972
00:39:08,339 --> 00:39:05,950
that the South Pole is off-limits

973
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:08,349
because of the Antarctic Theory treaty

974
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,390
and that you're not allowed to go there

975
00:39:13,710 --> 00:39:12,160
and he gets very angry when people bring

976
00:39:15,150 --> 00:39:13,720
this up and start saying you know that's

977
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:15,160
not true you don't know that you haven't

978
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:16,450
been there and there were these flights

979
00:39:21,059 --> 00:39:18,910
to go to the South Pole he still thinks

980
00:39:23,250 --> 00:39:21,069
the earth is flat but he thinks that the

981
00:39:26,279 --> 00:39:23,260
South Pole is the edge of the earth and

982
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:26,289
that you can go beyond it and he has

983
00:39:29,420 --> 00:39:27,970
this kind of romantic notion of

984
00:39:31,789 --> 00:39:29,430
exploring which is where his

985
00:39:35,250 --> 00:39:31,799
organization is called exploring again

986
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:35,260
where I think he he really really likes

987
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:36,760
the idea of going out and discovering

988
00:39:43,410 --> 00:39:39,250
things and so he thinks that he will go

989
00:39:45,809 --> 00:39:43,420
to the South Pole and get on his skis

990
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:45,819
and the wind will blow him further south

991
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,410
which is further out from the middle of

992
00:39:54,180 --> 00:39:49,839
the disk and he will explore what's

993
00:39:55,289 --> 00:39:54,190
there and report back someone asked him

994
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:55,299
do you think there's a chance of you

995
00:39:58,020 --> 00:39:57,490
dying on this trip and he says yes but

996
00:40:00,900 --> 00:39:58,030
I'm just doing

997
00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:00,910
what the creator set me on the path of

998
00:40:06,450 --> 00:40:04,120
doing everyone seemed very much in favor

999
00:40:09,930 --> 00:40:06,460
of this but the problem is that you go

1000
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:09,940
to the South Pole and you try to go

1001
00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:11,230
south of course what's going to happen

1002
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:13,000
is everywhere every direction from the

1003
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:14,560
South Pole is actually north so you're

1004
00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:16,450
just going in a random direction in

1005
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:19,870
Antarctica but I don't think he really

1006
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:22,690
had done kite skiing before and he

1007
00:40:28,020 --> 00:40:25,450
didn't look like the fittest guy in the

1008
00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:28,030
world you know I don't want to bag on

1009
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:29,830
him but just for a practical basis he

1010
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:32,410
seems like he was kind of overweight and

1011
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:35,170
unfit and didn't really seem that

1012
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:39,010
familiar with the practicality of kite

1013
00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:41,920
surfing across the continent and yet he

1014
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:46,200
was a sponsor of this conference and

1015
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:49,090
obviously he'd kind of paid essentially

1016
00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:50,770
to be there by sponsoring the conference

1017
00:40:54,780 --> 00:40:53,380
and he got up and gave his speech and he

1018
00:40:58,260 --> 00:40:54,790
said he'd never given a speech before

1019
00:40:59,250 --> 00:40:58,270
and you know he if a reasonable job for

1020
00:41:00,930 --> 00:40:59,260
someone who'd never given a speech

1021
00:41:05,010 --> 00:41:00,940
before he just can't read from his notes

1022
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:05,020
he was a very nice guy but here's his

1023
00:41:11,490 --> 00:41:08,410
scheme is entirely impractical entirely

1024
00:41:13,590 --> 00:41:11,500
implausible and I think quite dangerous

1025
00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:13,600
probably what would happen if he

1026
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:16,270
actually goes to the South Pole is the

1027
00:41:21,300 --> 00:41:17,440
the people there are gonna recognize

1028
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:21,310
that he is not it's got a good plan and

1029
00:41:26,730 --> 00:41:24,010
they're gonna just stop him it might

1030
00:41:29,130 --> 00:41:26,740
become clearer to him as as the time

1031
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:29,140
gets closer what the problems with his

1032
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:30,850
plan out that you know I'm hoping he

1033
00:41:35,580 --> 00:41:33,370
doesn't actually try to to do it because

1034
00:41:37,980 --> 00:41:35,590
it's not gonna go well a much more

1035
00:41:40,830 --> 00:41:37,990
sensible option would be to charter a

1036
00:41:47,730 --> 00:41:40,840
plane to fly to the South Pole and then

1037
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:47,740
fly south yeah get someone who can fly a

1038
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:49,750
bit further because like I say when you

1039
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:51,280
get to the South Pole every direction is

1040
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:53,680
north so you're gonna see more of

1041
00:41:58,530 --> 00:41:56,770
Antarctica but you'll see a lot more of

1042
00:42:02,930 --> 00:41:58,540
it than you would from trying to have a

1043
00:42:08,010 --> 00:42:02,940
kite pull you on skis to the main event

1044
00:42:10,050 --> 00:42:08,020
my debate with Nathan Thompson the

1045
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:10,060
debate was just a spur sat at a table

1046
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:11,770
what I thought was going to happen we're

1047
00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:11,950
going

1048
00:42:16,410 --> 00:42:14,830
fifteen minutes each but what happened

1049
00:42:17,970 --> 00:42:16,420
was they gave Nathan 50 minutes and then

1050
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:17,980
me ten minutes and I didn't realize this

1051
00:42:23,010 --> 00:42:21,190
but I'll get to that later so coin toss

1052
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:23,020
at the start Nathan won the coin toss

1053
00:42:31,110 --> 00:42:26,890
and elected to go first and he basically

1054
00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:31,120
just gave a long list of points of proof

1055
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:32,860
as to why the globe doesn't work on why

1056
00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:35,710
the earth is flat much of which he did

1057
00:42:40,590 --> 00:42:38,680
yesterday and I made I made a list

1058
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:40,600
I'll bet and I marked off the ones that

1059
00:42:44,970 --> 00:42:43,210
he said I think about about ten of them

1060
00:42:47,820 --> 00:42:44,980
were points that inmates the previous

1061
00:42:50,130 --> 00:42:47,830
day and he didn't really address very

1062
00:42:52,590 --> 00:42:50,140
many of my points that I had made from

1063
00:42:53,850 --> 00:42:52,600
the previous day so I've made a list of

1064
00:42:55,110 --> 00:42:53,860
points that I've made the previous day

1065
00:42:58,020 --> 00:42:55,120
that I was going to bring up again and

1066
00:43:01,950 --> 00:42:58,030
see how he actually responded to them so

1067
00:43:03,810 --> 00:43:01,960
he gave his 15 minutes of talking and it

1068
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:03,820
went over to me and so I just basically

1069
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:06,880
started out explaining why all of these

1070
00:43:10,830 --> 00:43:08,740
points when as time were wrong and I I

1071
00:43:14,340 --> 00:43:10,840
made a list of 20 points that he had

1072
00:43:17,070 --> 00:43:14,350
made things like pilots not adjusting

1073
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:17,080
for the curve and we've got the

1074
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:18,640
thermosphere being too hot for

1075
00:43:25,350 --> 00:43:22,210
satellites using a laser to measure the

1076
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:25,360
temperature of moonlight photos of the

1077
00:43:28,110 --> 00:43:26,800
Sun not looking very good various

1078
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:28,120
documents that he had looked at that

1079
00:43:31,580 --> 00:43:30,130
didn't that seem to say that the

1080
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:31,590
government thought the earth was flat

1081
00:43:37,050 --> 00:43:34,240
Neil deGrasse Tyson saying that it's

1082
00:43:38,670 --> 00:43:37,060
flat the NASA saying that things were

1083
00:43:40,170 --> 00:43:38,680
photoshopped and basically went through

1084
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:40,180
all of these things and I gave the

1085
00:43:46,260 --> 00:43:43,690
actual explanation for them I told him

1086
00:43:49,050 --> 00:43:46,270
quite clearly that one of his big pieces

1087
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:49,060
of evidence these flickering images of

1088
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:51,670
stars that he was showing were just his

1089
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:53,770
camera being out of focus which lots of

1090
00:43:57,060 --> 00:43:55,930
people have told him and I can hammered

1091
00:43:58,740 --> 00:43:57,070
this point because I knew it wasn't

1092
00:44:00,600 --> 00:43:58,750
getting through to him you know yeah

1093
00:44:02,130 --> 00:44:00,610
cameras out of focus you gotta learn how

1094
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:02,140
to focus it's shimmering because it's

1095
00:44:06,330 --> 00:44:05,170
out of focus you know hopefully he will

1096
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:06,340
actually learn at some point how to

1097
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:09,310
focus his camera and take actual

1098
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:10,960
pictures of stars which look like points

1099
00:44:15,330 --> 00:44:12,910
of light rather than these shimmering

1100
00:44:18,030 --> 00:44:15,340
blobs which you think are some kind of I

1101
00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:18,040
don't know his cereal beings I went

1102
00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:20,440
through the points I made he didn't

1103
00:44:24,510 --> 00:44:22,270
bring up and reiterated them and said

1104
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:24,520
you didn't mean at this point I thought

1105
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:25,930
I had five minutes left and

1106
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:28,240
my mic was telling me my time was up so

1107
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:29,680
I just had to kind of rush through them

1108
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:31,510
really quickly and then they gave Nathan

1109
00:44:35,549 --> 00:44:33,490
ten minutes and then after that they

1110
00:44:38,839 --> 00:44:35,559
gave me 15 minutes so it's all the

1111
00:44:41,339 --> 00:44:38,849
little little confusing as I didn't have

1112
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,349
things set right but it actually went

1113
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:43,119
very very well

1114
00:44:48,450 --> 00:44:46,569
from my perspective we went back and

1115
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:48,460
forth a little bit you know I guess we

1116
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:50,050
just did those those four there's four

1117
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:53,050
talks and I kind of closed with the

1118
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:56,530
point that they don't have an actual map

1119
00:45:00,089 --> 00:44:58,210
of the plateau that works they don't

1120
00:45:01,740 --> 00:45:00,099
have a model a scientific model of the

1121
00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:01,750
Flat Earth that works that actually can

1122
00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:03,910
make predictions and we do have a very

1123
00:45:06,089 --> 00:45:04,540
good one

1124
00:45:07,710 --> 00:45:06,099
with the globe earth model that makes

1125
00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:07,720
perfect predictions things like you know

1126
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:10,569
where where is night and day on the

1127
00:45:13,980 --> 00:45:12,010
globe earth makes perfect sense it's

1128
00:45:16,170 --> 00:45:13,990
just a globe cut in half by the sun's

1129
00:45:18,990 --> 00:45:16,180
light whereas on the flat earth who

1130
00:45:22,859 --> 00:45:19,000
doesn't make any sense whatsoever and I

1131
00:45:26,940 --> 00:45:22,869
talked about its closing but I had a

1132
00:45:29,549 --> 00:45:26,950
t-shirt on that had a famous experiment

1133
00:45:33,539 --> 00:45:29,559
and a famous experiment by Alfred Russel

1134
00:45:35,490 --> 00:45:33,549
Wallace from the 1800s and it was an

1135
00:45:37,530 --> 00:45:35,500
experiment where he had the entire line

1136
00:45:40,170 --> 00:45:37,540
of sight was 15 feet above the water to

1137
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:40,180
get above refraction so I stood up and I

1138
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:42,130
ripped off my jacket and I pointed up my

1139
00:45:46,829 --> 00:45:44,410
t-shirt and I explained to them what the

1140
00:45:48,299 --> 00:45:46,839
experiment was and I said rise up rise

1141
00:45:50,220 --> 00:45:48,309
above refraction you've got to rise

1142
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:50,230
above refraction repeated this because I

1143
00:45:54,569 --> 00:45:53,260
wanted to get the point across and that

1144
00:45:56,789 --> 00:45:54,579
was going to be end of my talk hissing

1145
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,799
yeah we've got to do experiments that

1146
00:46:01,650 --> 00:45:59,280
rise of every fraction use mountains use

1147
00:46:03,059 --> 00:46:01,660
observations that are above the water

1148
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:03,069
I'm not actually touching the water

1149
00:46:07,770 --> 00:46:06,400
because water messes you up and there

1150
00:46:11,039 --> 00:46:07,780
are lots of explanations you can do I

1151
00:46:12,510 --> 00:46:11,049
was gonna go on about [\h__\h] about yeah

1152
00:46:14,609 --> 00:46:12,520
various other things but kind of ran out

1153
00:46:19,049 --> 00:46:14,619
of time now one of the things I wanted

1154
00:46:21,299 --> 00:46:19,059
to talk about briefly in my presentation

1155
00:46:24,270 --> 00:46:21,309
was just how friendly everybody was and

1156
00:46:25,289 --> 00:46:24,280
how nice everybody was and how it was

1157
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:25,299
actually possible to have good

1158
00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:26,770
communication with people and this is

1159
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:28,569
something I genuinely believe and I had

1160
00:46:33,569 --> 00:46:32,079
a good time there anyway I mentioned the

1161
00:46:35,039 --> 00:46:33,579
prism thing again and I showed the

1162
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:35,049
president thing I told Nathan he was

1163
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:36,400
wrong with the prism and he just you

1164
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:39,670
know smiled and shook his head yeah but

1165
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:42,490
they're after they're after it was over

1166
00:46:44,310 --> 00:46:43,690
there's a bunch of questions from the

1167
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:44,320
audience

1168
00:46:47,130 --> 00:46:45,520
I think there's more questions for me

1169
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:47,140
than with Nathan because obviously I'm

1170
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:49,420
more of a exotic creature at a flat

1171
00:46:53,250 --> 00:46:51,310
earth conference because I'm not a flat

1172
00:46:54,860 --> 00:46:53,260
earther where's Nathan is so they ask me

1173
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:54,870
questions like how do you explain

1174
00:46:59,730 --> 00:46:57,310
various things like you know why after

1175
00:47:01,680 --> 00:46:59,740
six months does the earth still face the

1176
00:47:03,930 --> 00:47:01,690
Sun at noon and I explained the

1177
00:47:06,090 --> 00:47:03,940
difference between side aerial day and a

1178
00:47:08,250 --> 00:47:06,100
solar day which you can look up if

1179
00:47:09,870 --> 00:47:08,260
you're interested and you know there's

1180
00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:09,880
some other things like I think Nathan

1181
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:12,220
Gonzales asked me about why you can see

1182
00:47:17,550 --> 00:47:15,040
so far of water with laser experiments

1183
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:17,560
why I made certain changes to my curve

1184
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:20,650
calculator and then I just explained

1185
00:47:27,090 --> 00:47:24,130
everything somebody asked me how I came

1186
00:47:29,010 --> 00:47:27,100
to flat earth yes a question for both of

1187
00:47:31,110 --> 00:47:29,020
us and I told them I came to flat earth

1188
00:47:34,830 --> 00:47:31,120
the way that a lot of they said a lot of

1189
00:47:37,340 --> 00:47:34,840
them said they did which was I started

1190
00:47:40,530 --> 00:47:37,350
out trying to debunk Flat Earth and

1191
00:47:42,450 --> 00:47:40,540
unlike them I did debunk Flat Earth so

1192
00:47:43,710 --> 00:47:42,460
they all had this origin story which I

1193
00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:43,720
started out trying to debunk Flat Earth

1194
00:47:47,790 --> 00:47:45,310
and then I couldn't and now I'm a

1195
00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:47,800
fluffer where's my original story with

1196
00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:49,420
regards to plateaus was I started out

1197
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:50,860
trying to debunk Flat Earth and I did

1198
00:48:01,110 --> 00:47:53,200
and here are all the reasons why it's

1199
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:01,120
debunked after the debate I had a bunch

1200
00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:03,730
of very interesting conversations and

1201
00:48:07,860 --> 00:48:05,560
the one woman that talked to quite

1202
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:07,870
extensively for maybe at least half an

1203
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:10,810
hour and I did shouldn't win her name to

1204
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:14,530
go out so I'm gonna call her Laura Laura

1205
00:48:18,990 --> 00:48:17,200
it was fascinating flat earther I think

1206
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:19,000
friend of Nathan Gonzales always knows

1207
00:48:25,530 --> 00:48:23,650
him and they she shouldn't be part of

1208
00:48:26,910 --> 00:48:25,540
these experiments where you shine lights

1209
00:48:29,010 --> 00:48:26,920
across the water nice trying to explain

1210
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:29,020
to her why it doesn't work and we talked

1211
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:30,640
about all kinds of topics it's very

1212
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:32,890
interesting I'm hoping to have Laura on

1213
00:48:39,660 --> 00:48:35,710
my podcast at some point maybe even

1214
00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:39,670
later today and it was very interesting

1215
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:43,750
talking to her because I was explaining

1216
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:47,520
things and what I thought were fairly

1217
00:48:51,390 --> 00:48:49,930
straightforward ways from my point of

1218
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:51,400
view like I was trying to explain why

1219
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:52,810
perspective can't actually hide the

1220
00:48:58,140 --> 00:48:53,530
bottom of a man

1221
00:49:00,210 --> 00:48:58,150
and she wasn't getting it which again

1222
00:49:01,650 --> 00:49:00,220
you know he's obviously partly due to me

1223
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:01,660
not being able to explain things very

1224
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:04,770
well but it's also I think due to

1225
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:07,120
thinking about things in a certain way

1226
00:49:12,090 --> 00:49:10,690
which isn't conducive to accepting these

1227
00:49:13,290 --> 00:49:12,100
different explanations because she's

1228
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:13,300
been thinking about things in a certain

1229
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:16,000
way for so long she thinks that she

1230
00:49:19,950 --> 00:49:18,370
knows that perspective can hide the

1231
00:49:21,630 --> 00:49:19,960
bottom of mountains because that's what

1232
00:49:24,110 --> 00:49:21,640
perspective does it makes things smaller

1233
00:49:26,610 --> 00:49:24,120
and they vanish so it's very interesting

1234
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:26,620
essentially getting her perspective on

1235
00:49:30,810 --> 00:49:29,050
what I am saying I heard not

1236
00:49:32,220 --> 00:49:30,820
understanding things directly it's very

1237
00:49:35,580 --> 00:49:32,230
different talking to us an in person

1238
00:49:37,860 --> 00:49:35,590
than it is talking to them online so

1239
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:37,870
that was fascinating I talked to a few

1240
00:49:41,550 --> 00:49:39,190
other people after that I talked more

1241
00:49:43,770 --> 00:49:41,560
with Nathan Gonzales and he gave me some

1242
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:43,780
photographs of Catalina Island that he'd

1243
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:47,200
taken and I actually after I got back I

1244
00:49:52,650 --> 00:49:50,800
did a little explainer video explaining

1245
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:52,660
how his photographs actually show that

1246
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:54,970
the bottom two-thirds of Catalina Island

1247
00:49:59,700 --> 00:49:57,970
is missing and he was saying when he

1248
00:50:02,850 --> 00:49:59,710
should be this photos the you know you

1249
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:02,860
can see more than you should but it'd be

1250
00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:04,240
interesting to see how it responds he's

1251
00:50:07,770 --> 00:50:05,700
not actually got back to me yet and

1252
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:07,780
Nathan I think is someone I would like

1253
00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:09,970
to also maybe have on my podcast because

1254
00:50:14,910 --> 00:50:11,640
he's a fascinating character he has a

1255
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:14,920
YouTube channel called bipolar flat

1256
00:50:20,130 --> 00:50:17,920
earth and he has some other YouTube

1257
00:50:21,890 --> 00:50:20,140
things going on and he goes out and does

1258
00:50:24,060 --> 00:50:21,900
his experiments which is great and I I

1259
00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:24,070
explained to him in some detail how you

1260
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:26,590
need to get a rise up above refraction

1261
00:50:31,110 --> 00:50:29,050
and that the center point of the

1262
00:50:32,940 --> 00:50:31,120
line-of-sight also needs to be above the

1263
00:50:35,370 --> 00:50:32,950
water so you need to have something in

1264
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:35,380
the middle that's above the water all

1265
00:50:37,950 --> 00:50:36,610
you need to look at things that are high

1266
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:37,960
like mountains and things like anyway I

1267
00:50:42,930 --> 00:50:39,880
gave him all these explanations of it

1268
00:50:44,250 --> 00:50:42,940
which was it was great so fascinating

1269
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:44,260
trying to get that across and him

1270
00:50:48,930 --> 00:50:46,090
disagreeing with me quite emphatically

1271
00:50:52,410 --> 00:50:48,940
he also disagree with me on my take on

1272
00:50:54,210 --> 00:50:52,420
the forest fires the wild fires yeah but

1273
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:54,220
you know it's kind of another topic if

1274
00:50:58,350 --> 00:50:55,810
you can't convince people that the earth

1275
00:51:00,440 --> 00:50:58,360
is round and there's not how much point

1276
00:51:04,110 --> 00:51:00,450
in talking to them about forest fires or

1277
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:04,120
maybe the rest I don't know so what did

1278
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:06,880
I take away from the conference I

1279
00:51:13,289 --> 00:51:09,970
ultimately the most interesting aspect

1280
00:51:16,769 --> 00:51:13,299
for me was that the misunderstandings of

1281
00:51:20,089 --> 00:51:16,779
things seemed entirely genuine pretty

1282
00:51:24,029 --> 00:51:20,099
much everyone I talked to seemed very

1283
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:24,039
honest and straightforward even Nathan

1284
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:26,559
Thompson who people portray as being

1285
00:51:34,980 --> 00:51:31,930
someone who lies and misleads he came

1286
00:51:37,170 --> 00:51:34,990
across as being a nice guy who was being

1287
00:51:40,049 --> 00:51:37,180
relatively honest with what he said and

1288
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:40,059
I think in most cases he genuinely did

1289
00:51:46,140 --> 00:51:43,690
not understand the issues I was trying

1290
00:51:47,759 --> 00:51:46,150
to explain to him why satellites don't

1291
00:51:50,759 --> 00:51:47,769
burn up in the thermosphere at the

1292
00:51:52,319 --> 00:51:50,769
thermosphere is 2,000 degrees and it's

1293
00:51:56,220 --> 00:51:52,329
because the thermostat thermosphere is

1294
00:51:58,559 --> 00:51:56,230
very very very thin and so he the main

1295
00:52:00,690 --> 00:51:58,569
heat factors are actually radiation

1296
00:52:02,609 --> 00:52:00,700
which is incoming radiation from the Sun

1297
00:52:05,490 --> 00:52:02,619
and helps going radiation from the

1298
00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:05,500
satellites the thermosphere now it's

1299
00:52:10,019 --> 00:52:07,089
pretty much nothing to do with it and he

1300
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:10,029
didn't understand it he did not get the

1301
00:52:15,450 --> 00:52:13,569
distinction between heat from conduction

1302
00:52:17,759 --> 00:52:15,460
from the from the gases of the earth

1303
00:52:20,430 --> 00:52:17,769
earnest fear and heat from radiation and

1304
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:20,440
radiation outgoing radiation he was

1305
00:52:24,749 --> 00:52:22,329
thinking things only cool down via the

1306
00:52:26,670 --> 00:52:24,759
air touching them well of course if you

1307
00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:26,680
put something in a vacuum it will still

1308
00:52:32,190 --> 00:52:29,460
it'll still cool down via radiation and

1309
00:52:33,779 --> 00:52:32,200
if you put something in the Sun it'll

1310
00:52:35,549 --> 00:52:33,789
eventually reach a thermal equilibrium

1311
00:52:37,410 --> 00:52:35,559
it won't actually get hotter and hotter

1312
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,420
and hotter you'll get to a point at

1313
00:52:42,329 --> 00:52:40,000
which the heat is radiating away from it

1314
00:52:44,190 --> 00:52:42,339
at a certain rate on earth it's

1315
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:44,200
conducting as well anyway getting into

1316
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:45,609
the the weeds there but the point is

1317
00:52:52,609 --> 00:52:49,450
that these misunderstandings that they

1318
00:52:55,470 --> 00:52:52,619
had are genuine when people are saying

1319
00:52:57,660 --> 00:52:55,480
things like why can't we see photos of

1320
00:53:00,329 --> 00:52:57,670
upside down buildings it sounds like

1321
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,339
they're trolling but it seemed to me

1322
00:53:04,289 --> 00:53:02,079
like the guy really didn't understand

1323
00:53:06,259 --> 00:53:04,299
why we don't have photos of upside down

1324
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:06,269
buildings he didn't get the spatial

1325
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:08,650
relationships of things and how it

1326
00:53:13,980 --> 00:53:10,930
relates to gravity being pointing down

1327
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:13,990
and when I talked to Laura about

1328
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:15,930
perspective she didn't really understand

1329
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:18,640
why the difference between the

1330
00:53:22,380 --> 00:53:20,650
perspective of the surface of

1331
00:53:23,730 --> 00:53:22,390
something like the ocean surface and the

1332
00:53:26,670 --> 00:53:23,740
perspective or something that's vertical

1333
00:53:28,019 --> 00:53:26,680
like a mountain or a building and I was

1334
00:53:29,970 --> 00:53:28,029
taking photos and trying to demonstrate

1335
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:29,980
this to her but she generally it wasn't

1336
00:53:37,470 --> 00:53:34,569
getting it and Nathan I think also

1337
00:53:39,539 --> 00:53:37,480
wasn't getting why his explanations for

1338
00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:39,549
the missing bottom part of the mountain

1339
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:41,760
really didn't make any sense

1340
00:53:47,069 --> 00:53:44,010
especially in the context of him saying

1341
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:47,079
that he made these accurate observations

1342
00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:50,559
across water which were only a few feet

1343
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:53,440
with the issue and yet there are

1344
00:53:59,519 --> 00:53:54,910
thousands of feet in these Mountain

1345
00:54:03,029 --> 00:53:59,529
issues and yeah everyone for the large

1346
00:54:04,650 --> 00:54:03,039
pot seemed quite nice and very polite

1347
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:04,660
and very friendly I was actually I had a

1348
00:54:08,940 --> 00:54:06,910
good time we were joking with people

1349
00:54:13,049 --> 00:54:08,950
brother Ernest was a lot of fun he gave

1350
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:13,059
me this free t-shirt and I handed out a

1351
00:54:17,490 --> 00:54:15,760
bunch of copies of my book I usually

1352
00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:17,500
sell my book at conferences but it

1353
00:54:21,450 --> 00:54:19,660
didn't seem like I the right type of

1354
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:21,460
thing to you know be seen making a

1355
00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:23,770
profit not what I do make a profit from

1356
00:54:28,769 --> 00:54:26,440
these books with the cost of actually

1357
00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:28,779
taking on than that but yeah I I just

1358
00:54:33,690 --> 00:54:30,250
gave wake up a bunch of covers of my

1359
00:54:35,609 --> 00:54:33,700
book I gave one to Waldo the rocket

1360
00:54:38,010 --> 00:54:35,619
scientist guy and he emailed me later

1361
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:38,020
and asked if I was a member of the CIA

1362
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:40,210
because he thought it was very

1363
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,410
suspicious that I was debunking

1364
00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:44,079
chemtrails and 9/11 which is an

1365
00:54:49,799 --> 00:54:47,260
unfortunate thing you know I don't Flat

1366
00:54:51,359 --> 00:54:49,809
Earth by also debunk 9/11 has to debunk

1367
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:51,369
chemtrails I think all kinds of

1368
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:54,160
conspiracy theories and they think these

1369
00:54:58,490 --> 00:54:55,390
conspiracy theories are way more

1370
00:55:01,829 --> 00:54:58,500
reasonable then they're way more

1371
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:01,839
plausible than the Flat Earth conspiracy

1372
00:55:08,970 --> 00:55:06,880
theory so it's I think it currents me a

1373
00:55:11,940 --> 00:55:08,980
little bit in their eyes they see me as

1374
00:55:13,529 --> 00:55:11,950
someone who debunks everything and they

1375
00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:13,539
don't listen to when I say about Flat

1376
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:18,430
Earth but I came away I think with some

1377
00:55:23,370 --> 00:55:21,250
hope for the future I think it does

1378
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:23,380
demonstrate that you can communicate

1379
00:55:30,210 --> 00:55:26,410
with people who have very alternative

1380
00:55:32,309 --> 00:55:30,220
viewpoints we all have common things if

1381
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:32,319
you just you know if you even just start

1382
00:55:34,359 --> 00:55:33,760
with something like yeah we both like

1383
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:34,369
beer

1384
00:55:37,809 --> 00:55:36,170
you can start out with a common thing

1385
00:55:39,069 --> 00:55:37,819
and you can talk about that you can talk

1386
00:55:40,539 --> 00:55:39,079
about things like keep you take a

1387
00:55:42,189 --> 00:55:40,549
photograph of something you see a

1388
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:42,199
certain viewpoint this is something we

1389
00:55:46,209 --> 00:55:44,089
agree upon and then we figure out what

1390
00:55:48,309 --> 00:55:46,219
we disagree about and then we try to

1391
00:55:50,170 --> 00:55:48,319
figure out why we disagree and then you

1392
00:55:53,620 --> 00:55:50,180
figure out other things that we can do

1393
00:55:55,749 --> 00:55:53,630
to resolve this difference and I think

1394
00:55:57,849 --> 00:55:55,759
we say with Nathan Gonzalez I gave them

1395
00:56:02,439 --> 00:55:57,859
an experiment to do the the Wallis

1396
00:56:05,170 --> 00:56:02,449
experiment which should resolve the fact

1397
00:56:07,179 --> 00:56:05,180
that he's seeing these these these lines

1398
00:56:09,519 --> 00:56:07,189
of sight these lasers closer to the

1399
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:09,529
water because of refraction if you if

1400
00:56:15,249 --> 00:56:11,119
you rise up above refraction you see a

1401
00:56:18,099 --> 00:56:15,259
different thing Nathan Thompson actually

1402
00:56:20,499 --> 00:56:18,109
on facebook's told me that the prism

1403
00:56:21,729 --> 00:56:20,509
thing the green flash thing had given

1404
00:56:23,259 --> 00:56:21,739
him something to think about and he was

1405
00:56:25,449 --> 00:56:23,269
doing some experiments to try to figure

1406
00:56:28,269 --> 00:56:25,459
it out and so he actually I think

1407
00:56:29,189 --> 00:56:28,279
recognized that what he was claiming was

1408
00:56:32,650 --> 00:56:29,199
actually wrong

1409
00:56:34,209 --> 00:56:32,660
now I anticipate he will probably come

1410
00:56:36,209 --> 00:56:34,219
up with an explanation for what he is

1411
00:56:40,449 --> 00:56:36,219
seeing that fits the Flat Earth model

1412
00:56:42,779 --> 00:56:40,459
but he was previously giving this proof

1413
00:56:45,689 --> 00:56:42,789
of the Flat Earth from green flashes I

1414
00:56:49,359 --> 00:56:45,699
showed him he was doing it upside down

1415
00:56:51,609 --> 00:56:49,369
now he has to revise his worldview one

1416
00:56:56,229 --> 00:56:51,619
way or another he's obviously not going

1417
00:56:57,699 --> 00:56:56,239
to go drop the Flat Earth thing but you

1418
00:56:59,140 --> 00:56:57,709
know he can't use that anymore

1419
00:57:00,969 --> 00:56:59,150
I showed him some other thing as well

1420
00:57:03,370 --> 00:57:00,979
some table he was using which he said

1421
00:57:05,319 --> 00:57:03,380
proves the Flat Earth actually describes

1422
00:57:09,609 --> 00:57:05,329
the curve of the earth plus refraction

1423
00:57:11,499 --> 00:57:09,619
so that's another thing that I repeated

1424
00:57:13,509 --> 00:57:11,509
to him to explain to him that it says

1425
00:57:14,949 --> 00:57:13,519
wrong and maybe he's gonna have to

1426
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:14,959
revise his worldview on that a little

1427
00:57:19,779 --> 00:57:17,839
bit so he's kind of baby steps but the

1428
00:57:22,089 --> 00:57:19,789
key is having effective communication

1429
00:57:24,459 --> 00:57:22,099
with people if I wasn't actually there

1430
00:57:25,809 --> 00:57:24,469
talking to Nathan about the green flash

1431
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:25,819
I think he would just have ignored

1432
00:57:29,739 --> 00:57:27,529
everything that I posted online about it

1433
00:57:32,529 --> 00:57:29,749
but I actually went there I gave him the

1434
00:57:34,359 --> 00:57:32,539
[\h__\h] risen one that actually ground down

1435
00:57:36,819 --> 00:57:34,369
one edge and spray painted it black to

1436
00:57:38,469 --> 00:57:36,829
make it easier to use so put in quite a

1437
00:57:40,509 --> 00:57:38,479
bit of effort and he appreciated that

1438
00:57:42,429 --> 00:57:40,519
and he appreciated me talking to him and

1439
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:42,439
being polite and we had good

1440
00:57:47,199 --> 00:57:45,170
conversations he was adamant that I was

1441
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:47,209
wrong and I was you know yeah I don't

1442
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:48,290
know that he he was

1443
00:57:51,250 --> 00:57:49,850
was making mistakes but we had

1444
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:51,260
conversations and I think because of

1445
00:57:58,270 --> 00:57:55,250
that ultimately some progress was made I

1446
00:58:02,260 --> 00:57:58,280
think it perhaps gives some insight into

1447
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:02,270
other conspiracy theories in that the

1448
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:03,970
Flat Earth people had these genuine

1449
00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:07,280
misunderstandings of things and I think

1450
00:58:12,070 --> 00:58:10,160
with things like chemtrails and 9/11

1451
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:12,080
people also have these genuine

1452
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:13,580
misunderstandings of the physics that

1453
00:58:17,020 --> 00:58:15,110
are involved and the science that's

1454
00:58:19,270 --> 00:58:17,030
involved and they they don't realize

1455
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:19,280
this and it's hard to communicate and

1456
00:58:23,770 --> 00:58:21,110
you can't just say oh no that's wrong

1457
00:58:25,210 --> 00:58:23,780
you have to kind of get past this

1458
00:58:27,820 --> 00:58:25,220
misunderstanding you have to resolve

1459
00:58:29,860 --> 00:58:27,830
this misunderstanding and you create an

1460
00:58:34,270 --> 00:58:29,870
actual genuine understanding of what's

1461
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:34,280
going on and so ultimately I think a

1462
00:58:38,830 --> 00:58:36,410
message of hope from the Flat Earth

1463
00:58:40,210 --> 00:58:38,840
conference we can talk to each other and

1464
00:58:42,090 --> 00:58:40,220
we should talk to each other and I'm

1465
00:58:46,750 --> 00:58:42,100
gonna continue to talk to people

1466
00:58:47,770 --> 00:58:46,760
follow-ups are I have done my my video

1467
00:58:50,140 --> 00:58:47,780
with Nathan

1468
00:58:53,530 --> 00:58:50,150
Gonzalez's footage and I'm waiting to

1469
00:58:55,570 --> 00:58:53,540
hear back from him on that I'm going to

1470
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:55,580
try to talk to Laura trying to schedule

1471
00:59:01,150 --> 00:58:58,640
a podcast with her and the debate itself

1472
00:59:05,770 --> 00:59:01,160
this is a strange thing the debate was

1473
00:59:07,420 --> 00:59:05,780
recorded but since since that happened

1474
00:59:09,370 --> 00:59:07,430
since the actual debate happened over

1475
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:09,380
the weekend I've heard nothing at all

1476
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:09,920
about it

1477
00:59:16,990 --> 00:59:11,930
no indication no one's talking about

1478
00:59:19,060 --> 00:59:17,000
having watched it and IPS who I think is

1479
00:59:20,350 --> 00:59:19,070
in charge of the recordings hasn't

1480
00:59:23,710 --> 00:59:20,360
mentioned it and has just moved on to

1481
00:59:24,820 --> 00:59:23,720
talking about you know false events like

1482
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:24,830
there's a guy set himself on fire

1483
00:59:29,110 --> 00:59:26,450
outside the White House and he's

1484
00:59:30,820 --> 00:59:29,120
discussing if that's real or fake

1485
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:30,830
and he's not talking about the fight

1486
00:59:36,670 --> 00:59:34,010
another conference it's almost like they

1487
00:59:39,580 --> 00:59:36,680
want it to go away so I really like to

1488
00:59:41,860 --> 00:59:39,590
see the video of my debate out there and

1489
00:59:43,420 --> 00:59:41,870
not sure why it's not out there yet

1490
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:43,430
perhaps it will be out there later there

1491
00:59:46,780 --> 00:59:45,050
were other people filming there for

1492
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:46,790
documentaries but their inner which

1493
00:59:51,460 --> 00:59:49,850
output parts of the debate so I'd really

1494
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:51,470
like to see the full footage of the

1495
00:59:56,410 --> 00:59:53,510
debate and I'm not sure why it hasn't

1496
00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:56,420
come out yet hopefully it will come out

1497
01:00:01,930 --> 00:59:58,730
in the future I didn't record anything

1498
01:00:02,980 --> 01:00:01,940
myself again cuz I didn't want

1499
01:00:04,270 --> 01:00:02,990
people to think they were in the same

1500
01:00:08,589 --> 01:00:04,280
kind of surveillance or something like

1501
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:08,599
that so I just took notes and hopefully

1502
01:00:17,530 --> 01:00:12,530
this one hour of my recounting that is a

1503
01:00:19,690 --> 01:00:17,540
good a good sense of what happened that

1504
01:00:22,359 --> 01:00:19,700
really would be great to see the footage

1505
01:00:24,730 --> 01:00:22,369
of the debate so that people can judge

1506
01:00:27,460 --> 01:00:24,740
for themselves whether my account is

1507
01:00:32,109 --> 01:00:27,470
accurate and whether the earth is flat

1508
01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:32,119
or not okay I will keep everyone updated

1509
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:34,790
check the show notes for names and

1510
01:00:39,810 --> 01:00:38,210
whatnot and that's tales from the rabbit